[CAMWEST-discuss] Parra park Proposal

Rob Kemp robkemp at tpg.com.au
Mon Aug 8 11:40:56 UTC 2005


Some questions:

- Although I think I can see what Danny's trying to get at, having cars on the
left (outside) seems counter-intuative to me.  If motorists get confused too,
isn't that a recipe for conflict/disaster?
- What would happen to the current (car) parking on the inside of the track
(Near the Queens Rd Gate comes to mind, but there may be other sections as
well)? ie If that stayed, cars would still cross the shared path.
- There is also the access road to Old Government house which would require
motorists to cross the shared path.  (How many motorists use this road?)
- How do the faster riders feel about dropping the maximium allowable speed from
35 to 30 kmph?

- Rob K.

Quoting Danny Hannan <danny_hannan at yahoo.com>:

> Looks like we are already formulating a CAMWEST
> proposal for Parramatta Park.
> 
> Please add anything you think may also be needed.
> 
> 1.  Signs at all entries stating that motorists must
> give way to all other road users including cyclists.
> 
> 2.  Motor vehicles are confined to the outside (left,
> with current direction of one-way) of the roadway with
> a 2.5-3m wide lane (minimum lane width to constrict
> motorists), NO vehicle parking or access to the inside
> (right side) of the roadway, vehicles have no reason
> to turn across or cross the path of pedestrians or
> cyclists.  Blanket speed limit of 30km/hr.
> 
> 3.  Shared path of a maximum possible width on the
> inside (right side, with current one-way direction) of
> the roadway.  With all parking on the outside of the
> circuit road, this arrangement means that motor
> vehicles never have need to turn across or cross the
> shared pathway.
> 
> 4.  All users of the shared pathway have a speed limit
> of 20km/hr.  Depending on the bicycle and situation, a
> bicycle maybe unstable at lower speeds and runners,
> roller-bladers and skate-boarders can all easily
> exceed 15km/hr.  It is discrimitry to apply the speed
> limits to cyclists only.
> 
> 5.  Cyclists may use the 30km/hr vehicle roadway and
> have right of way over motor vehicles.
> 
> 6.  Motor vehicle roadway is also marked with the
> cyclist (bicycle) logo to inform motorists of
> cyclists' right to use that space.
> 
> Dan
> 
> 
> 
>  Mark Robson <Mark.Robson at australwright.com.au> wrote:
> 
> > Hi All,
> > 
> > Upon some reflection I agree with Danny that a
> > shared path
> > with a speed limit will be an encouragement to
> > inexperienced riders to
> > get on their bikes. 
> > 
> > Agreement with a speed limited shared path MUST be
> > linked to obvious
> > signage that bicyclists exceeding the path speed
> > limit are allowed
> > and expected to use the vehicle road. This MUST be
> > clearly signposted 
> > at all park entrances. My worry is that motorists
> > will rightously demand 
> > all bicyclists to be in the shared path area.
> > 
> > The letter of the law is that pedestrians have legal
> > right of way on the shared path;
> > so imagining a situation where 5 or 6 pedestrians
> > take ownership of the shared path
> > the poor cyclist is once again forced into the
> > traffic lane.
> > A bicycle travelling at 15 km/h will take a hard hit
> > from a car doing 30 km/h.
> > 
> > How about a rule in the park that all cars have to
> > give way to bicycles, period!
> > 
> > Parramatta Park is one of the few places where
> > recreational cyclists can go and NOT
> > have to worry about pedestrians OR cars. We should
> > fight to retain this.
> > 
> > If the Trust want to make a space available for a
> > pedestrain footpath let it be at the 
> > expense of motorists, not cyclists.
> > 
> > Mark R
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Danny Hannan [mailto:danny_hannan at yahoo.com]
> > Sent: Monday, 8 August 2005 2:19 PM
> > To: Mark Robson
> > Subject: RE: [CAMWEST-discuss] Parra park Proposal
> > 
> > 
> > Parramatta Park Proposal,
> > Remove the two way vehicle movements from the CBD
> > end
> > of the park, The whole outside circuit of the park
> > to
> > be one way only.  Vehicles to be limited to 3.3m
> > wide
> > road section and the rest for shared use varies 1.2m
> > to 3m wide. Blanket speed limit of 30km/hr. Speed
> > limit for cyclists only in the shared section of
> > 15km/hr.
> > 
> > I personally support the proposal, cyclists can use
> > the motor vehicle section for faster riding.  I do
> > have some concerns and propose suggested changes in
> > line with those concerns.
> > 
> > There should be a blanket speed limit for the shared
> > section.  Runners, roller-bladders and
> > skate-boarders
> > can all exceed 15km/hr, roller-bladers and
> > skate-boarders have less control than cyclists.  Why
> > should cyclists be singled out?  Depending on the
> > design of the bicycle and the situation, 15Km/hr is
> > slow on a bicycle and it is less stable than at
> > faster
> > speeds.
> > 
> > 1.  For the above reasons I propose a blanket speed
> > limit for the shared section of 20km/hr.
> > 
> > 2.  Narrow the vehicle section of the road to a
> > maximum of 3m and 2.5m where the road way is narrow.
> > (Maximum legal vehicle width is 2.5m.)
> > 
> > 2.  The vehicle lane be on the outside of the
> > circuit
> > road (left hand side if the one-way direction is
> > clockwise as is now) and all parking be on the
> > outside
> > of the circuit road.  If all the vehicle parking is
> > on
> > the outside of the road vehicles would not have to
> > overtake and turn in front of pedestrians, cyclists
> > etc to exit the park or to access parking as all
> > non-motorised traffic would be on the inside of the
> > circuit road.  This avoids the conflict that has
> > caused several accidents in the past.
> > 
> > Dan
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > > How about meeting at parramatta park, 8am Sunday
> > > morning.
> > > 
> > > enough of us have bike speedos to sample some
> > > typical speeds of other riders as well
> > > as clocking typical speeds for various sections
> > > ourselves.
> > > 
> > > Mark R
> > > 
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: David Formosa (? the Platypus)
> > > [mailto:dformosa at zeta.org.au]
> > > Sent: Sunday, 7 August 2005 10:20 PM
> > > To: Jonhol2 at netscape.net
> > > Cc: camwest-discuss at nicku.org
> > > Subject: Re: [CAMWEST-discuss] Parra park Proposal
> > > 
> > > 
> > > On Sun, 7 Aug 2005 Jonhol2 at netscape.net wrote:
> > > 
> > > >     I have already written a letter suggesting
> > > some changes to their
> > > > plan such as limiting vehicle speeds, not
> > cycles,
> > > opposite flows for
> > > > m/Vehs compared to bikes,
> > > 
> > > Opposite m/Vehs flows is something very bad and
> > not
> > > something we should
> > > recomend.  Opposite flow (like wrong way cycling)
> > > increases both the
> > > chance of a collision and the dammige that a
> > > collision will cause.
> > > 
> > > -- 
> > > Please excuse my spelling as I suffer from
> > agraphia.
> > > See
> > >
> > http://dformosa.zeta.org.au/~dformosa/Spelling.html
> > > to find out more.
> > > Free the Memes.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > This e-mail and any attachments to it are
> > > confidential. 
> > > 
> > > They may contain legally privileged information or
> > > copyright material. 
> > > 
> > > You should not read, copy, use or disclose them
> > > without authorisation.
> > > 
> > > If you are not an intended recipient, please
> > contact
> > > us at once by return e-mail. 
> > > 
> > > We do not accept liability in connection with any
> > > computer virus, data corruption, delay,
> > > interruption, unauthorised access or
> > > unauthorised amendment.
> > > 
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > CAMWEST-discuss mailing list
> > > CAMWEST-discuss at nicku.org
> > > http://nicku.org/mailman/listinfo/camwest-discuss
> > > CAMWEST web site: http://camwest.pps.com.au/ 
> > 
> > 
> > danny_hannan at yahoo.com
> > 
> > 
> > 	
> > 
> > 	
> > 		
> > ____________________________________________________
> > 
> > Do you Yahoo!? 
> > Try Yahoo! Photomail Beta: Send up to 300 photos in
> > one email! 
> > http://au.photomail.mail.yahoo.com
> > 
> 
> 
> danny_hannan at yahoo.com
> 
> 
> 		
> ____________________________________________________ 
> Do you Yahoo!? 
> Exclusive 'King Kong' Trailer from the maker of 'The Lord of the Rings' 
> http://au.movies.yahoo.com/promo/king_kong.html
> 


------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
Rob Kemp                        'Trying to live more sustainably'. 
Web: http://www4.tpg.com.au/users/robkemp 
ph: (h) 02 9864 8797   (w) 02 9296 1561



More information about the CAMWEST-discuss mailing list