[CAMWEST-discuss] Fw: Rouse Hill T-Way

jonhol2 at netscape.net jonhol2 at netscape.net
Sun Apr 8 10:20:34 UTC 2007

Hello all,
           I ventured out on my first ride for a month today ( Easter Sunday) to test ride my injured shoulder & I chose to ride the T-Way from Westmead Hospital to the M7. The main reason for doing this was to gain some idea on the track before making any further noise.
My first problem was identifying the cycle way. It was poorly signposted from the Hospital & I rode along the footpath down to Mons Road where I picked up the track. I assume that the footpath was not a shared path as it was not marked that way. I was aware of where the T-Way was before setting out, but had I been going out cold, it would have been a difficult task to find it.
 A short run along Mons Rd ended in a bit of confusion but I finally found the way along the T-Way & over a beautiful bridge, specially designed and built for cycling, all the way to a DEAD END. I stopped & watched another cyclist venture across the Cumberland Highway intersection. He wandered around on the other side of the roadway in bewilderment & then returned to his starting point. I gave him the options of Redbank Rd or the Housing Commission estate & the last I saw of him was him heading towards Redbank. (That is probably his first & last ride on this route).
I took off on the well worn path through the broken fence past the basketball courts. I noted that I rode through a storm water depression & had to clamber down a 60 cm or so wall. This would not be the route to take if it were raining in any way. 
The housing commission estate looked relatively neat & tidy but I got the impression I would not like to ride through here in the dark. A resonable amount of graffiti around, poor lighting & lots of little alleys to run into once you mugged someone.
Over the footbridge across the Cumberland. It has a ramp, was easy enough to ride but it had sahrp turns, was relatively narrow & obviously wasn't designed for the cyclist. Off the other side, more Housing Commission Estate, much the same as the other side. A couple of minor detours saw me back on the T-Way Path at the top of the hill.
 Down the hill to Fitzwilliam St was very pleasant. Across the lights & continue on.
The crossing of Fitzwilliam Rd saw me on the residents access road, a narrow stretch about 3 metres wide, with parked cars & two way traffic for about 300 metres. Then it was back on to a dedicated bike path which turned under Old Windsor Road along side the creek with a warning sign that the road was subject to flooding & a flood water indicator. There had been a large amount of storm water run off from Old Windsor Rd & there was quite a nice little quagmire for about 3 metres. Met a father & two kids here. The kids were on an "outfit", a Mountain bike & side car. Looked like fun.
Back up along Old Windsor. Here the bike path is in various states of repair or disrepair.A mix of new & old path.  Areas of debris on the path, some overgrowth, especially around intersections & some interesting turns & traffic calming ideas at intersections. A couple of cars parked on the path & plenty of evidence that this was a regular practice. The crossing of the M2 was slow, due to the traffic volumes & nature of the intersection. The safety barriers on the other side could not be ridden through, so it was detour around or get off & walk through. From there it was back on the cycle way & up to the M7. After the small amount of rain we have had, there was evidence of flooding, poor drainage & poor erosion prevention measures. There is a number of traffic signs growing from the track & they make for interesting riding.
The return trip home took me through the back streets of Winston Hills (Rebecca Place, Barnetts & Moxhams etc) & even though it was 'on road' it was a pleasant ride.
My impressions: Here is another token cycle path. It starts and ends almost nowhere. You can probably make your way to Parramatta from Windsor or Prestons but the detours at this time are a severe impediment to enjoyable commuting.
As with other cycle paths in most areas of Sydney, there is no obvious maintenance programme & no  enforcement programme to discourage parking or driving on the tracks. They appear to be a convenient area for landscapers to gain access to their gardens & are also a very convenient place to site traffic control signs.
The lack of any foresight in planning this track, especially on the Cumberland / Old Windsor Rd intersection makes it a white elephant right from the outset & we should all be contacting the RTA & Parramatta Council regarding this as often as possible.
I also noted that the cycling fraternity is not the only one's inconvenienced by the lack of foresight of the planners. If you choose to be a pedestrian & live on the opposite side of Old Windsor Rd, then good luck getting on to the T-Way without some fairly long walks or dangerous road crossings.
Oh, one plus. There are bike rings at the bus stops but if you choose to leave yours there, then contact your insurer before you do. Plenty of noise barriers & trees to provide cover for the thieves.
I will be making some inquiries with BNSW, RTA & Parramatta Council (as per the comment from Ian MacIndoe below) re this track & the proposed dates to remedy the Cumberland Intersection. If you have already spoken to these people, let me know the results of your conversations as soon as possible.
John Holstein

jonhol2 at netscape.net

"if we don't change direction, we will end up where we are headed"
-----Original Message-----
From: mpgoard at ihug.com.au
To: imacian at bigpond.net.au; Mark.Robson at australwright.com.au; pmcguire at tpg.com.au; camwest-discuss at nicku.org; nicku at nicku.org; jonhol2 at netscape.net
Cc: aunwin at bicyclensw.org.au; mwalsh at parracity.nsw.gov.au; cworthington at parracity.nsw.gov.au; gjensen at parracity.nsw.gov.au; Ian_Lovelock at rta.nsw.gov.au
Sent: Mon, 2 Apr 2007 1:24 PM
Subject: Re: [CAMWEST-discuss] Fw: Rouse Hill T-Way

I have also seen that the Sond Wall has been repaired.
Also checked out access from southern side of intersection to portadown through the housing commision complex.
Photos of this area is at:
240 - Chain fence broken and trodden path to Shared Path
241 - trodden path to Sound wall
242 - Soundwall end of chainlink fence
243 - overgrown and narrow space between chainlink fence and Soundwall
244 - trodden path along chainlink fence from Soundwall
245 - trodden dirt path from chainlink fence over retaining wall towards housing commission units
246 - retaining wall and path to soundwall
247 - retaining wall and path through break in chainlink fence
248 - trodden path through storm water channel between retaining wall and houing commision units
249 - Storm water outlet from under roadway taken from trodden path
250 - trodden path through stormwater channel from housing commision units side looking at intersection and end of shared path
251 - trodden path through stormwater channel from housing commision units side looking at intersection and end of shared path
252 - T-way Bridge, Shared path bridge and basketball court in foreground
253 - midway on trodden path between housing commision units driveway and stormwater channel (facing west)
254 - midway on trodden path between housing commision units driveway and stormwater channel (facing east to intersection) 
255 - Eastern end of access driveway of housing commision units 
Michael Goard
mpgoard at ihug.com.au
Phone: +61 415 191 405
----- Original Message ----- 
From: Ian Macindoe 
To: Mark.Robson at australwright.com.au ; mpgoard at ihug.com.au ; pmcguire at tpg.com.au ; camwest-discuss at nicku.org ; nicku at nicku.org ; jonhol2 at netscape.net 
Cc: Alex Unwin ; Maureen Walsh ; Chris Worthington ; Garry Jensen ; Ian Lovelock 
Sent: Monday, April 02, 2007 12:37 PM
Subject: Re: [CAMWEST-discuss] Fw: Rouse Hill T-Way

Dear John
I have been trying to contact BNSW re this problem. Maybe you will have more luck, as a Committee member. There is presently an impasse between the RTA and Parramatta City Council, with the former claiming the Council owes RTA funds and the Council denying this is true. I would like to see Bicycle NSW try to broker a resolution. If you wish to get more information call Gary Jensen (Parramatta City Council Open Space Manager) on 9806 5717 and Peter Letts (RTA -- call 131 782 and ask to be put thru to Peter Letts). I understand the Lord Mayor has written to the Minister. Last I heard the Minister had not yet replied. One way or another we need to kick up a fuss. I am otherwise pre-occupied at present, so must rely on others to take the initiative. Good luck.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: jonhol2 at netscape.net 
To: Mark.Robson at australwright.com.au ; mpgoard at ihug.com.au ; imacian at bigpond.net.au ; pmcguire at tpg.com.au ; camwest-discuss at nicku.org ; nicku at nicku.org 
Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 9:15 PM
Subject: Re: [CAMWEST-discuss] Fw: Rouse Hill T-Way

I drove past the Cumberalnd Rd/ Old Windsor Rd intersection today. The sound barriers have been repaired, so the only option is onto the road at this time.
As much as I dislike protests, perhaps it is time to bombard Parramatta City Council & the RTA abput this intersection. Phone calls, letters etc. Also involve the local members as they should all be fresh and enthusiastic after their recent election/ re-election. 
Should a concerted effort like that fail, then how about a protest ride along the T Way from Parramatta to wherever & back again to raise the issue. It is absolutely ridiculous to think that they would spend all that money on any sort of roadway or path & have it just end. ( or is it in their minds) ? 
What are your thoughts?
John Holstein

"if we don't change direction, we will end up where we are headed"
-----Original Message-----
From: Mark.Robson at australwright.com.au
To: mpgoard at ihug.com.au; imacian at bigpond.net.au; pmcguire at tpg.com.au; camwest-discuss at nicku.org; nicku at nicku.org
Sent: Tue, 27 Mar 2007 4:10 PM
Subject: Re: [CAMWEST-discuss] Fw: Rouse Hill T-Way

Hi All,

This episode shows how the designers don't look around at what's already there
before they start.  There is a perfectly good pedestrian overpass across the 
Hwy within sight of the Cumberland Hwy/Old Windsor Rd intersection. From memory 
this bridge is
quite ridable, at least on the northern end.

Taking the cyclepath over the existing overpass and thru the park to Tanderaee
and up Ferndale Close would have been much better IMHO. Is there any access from 
the new
 creek crossing into Milford Way or is there a sound fence there as well?? If 
not then the
new bridge over the creek is a complete waste of money.

In the meantime, it's possible to divert via Darcy Rd, Briens Rd, Mayfield, 
cross Coopers Ck on narrow bridge, then Chetwyn Pl, 
then either - cross Cumberland Hwy at lights into Ferndale Cl
   or       - Portadown Rd, overpass, then up Tanderaee into Ferndale Cl

Mark R

-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Goard [mailto:mpgoard at ihug.com.au]
Sent: Tuesday, 20 March 2007 11:21 AM
To: Ian Macindoe; pmcguire at tpg.com.au; camwest-discuss at nicku.org; Nick
Urbanik; Mark Robson
Subject: Re: [CAMWEST-discuss] Fw: Rouse Hill T-Way

Hi all,

Here is a link to the route via Ferndale and Doig


There are several reasons for not recomending the route (see comments on the 
route in its notes)
I have attached some photos taken last Sunday (18/3)

The Noise Wall was completely closed, and has been hacked open, and a 
section of the fence erected has be taken down by locals.
The closure was done to kurb the incidence of theft from cars stopping at 
the lights on Hart Drive by some residents from the housing commision, 
hiding behind the part of the Noise Wall.
Could be impassable in wet weather

It may not be a safe route after dark.

215 - Road Ends - It sure does!
217 - T-way information sign on southern side of Hart Drive
222 - Southern side of Hart Drive facing wset up Hart Drive - "No Pedestrian 
Access Permitted"
223 - Narrow width of dropped curb
224 - Facing South East Old Windsor Rd - Restricted view of traffic 
approaching slip lane (many take it too fast) Recommend not to cross untill 
sure vehicle has stopped and those following will stop safely.
225 - No dropped curb crossing on island
226 - No fromed Paths, mounds of dirt, and rubble, and armco railing 
restrict access to cut hole in Noise Wall
227 - Hacked hole in Noise Wall
228 - Hacked hole in Noise Wall and uneven ground levels
229 - Hole made in newly erected Fence (facing west). The grass was quite 
long when photo taken. Seen note below about park
230 - Looking back (east) at hole cut in Noise Wall
231 - Opening made in newly erected fence (facing east)

Notes on Park in 229:
1. No formed path - problem in wet weather
2. In photo - veer to right to exit to Lurgan St Near Doig St
3. Veering to left takes you to concreted stormwater structures.  This has 
stepped level surfaces, and then takes you through housing commision units 
to Lurgan St


Michael Goard

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mark Robson" <Mark.Robson at australwright.com.au>
To: "Michael Goard" <mpgoard at ihug.com.au>; "Nick Urbanik" <nicku at nicku.org>; 
<camwest-discuss at nicku.org>; <pmcguire at tpg.com.au>
Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2007 9:28 AM
Subject: RE: [CAMWEST-discuss] Fw: Rouse Hill T-Way

> Hi All,
> I have had a quick look at Michael's bikely map,
> there is a new cycle bridge over the creek between the Cumberland Hwy and 
> Briens Rd,
> so it's not necessary to detour quite so far in this spot. However I don't 
> know yet
> how to get down the hill from Ferndale Close to Cumberland Hwy, I assume 
> there is
> some path still to be completed here, or perhaps cyclists are expected to 
> go through
> the back streets via Ferndale, Doig St and through the littl;e park there.
> Anyway, this is preferable to the big detour roud Hammers Rd,
> and that hammers Rd bridge is really dangerous as well, sorry Michael,
> I've been nearly hit by a car there twice.
> Unfortunately the route from Abbot Rd to Cumberland Hwy IS covered by 
> something
> that the T-Way people think is a bicycle route. It's all they are building 
> and
> it has some serious problems. They don't seem to understand that a double 
> traffic lights
> crossing like the one peter refers to at the intersection of Abbot Rd and 
> Old Windsor Rd
> is completely unattractive to any sort of cyclist. How much more would it 
> have cost to clip
> an extra couple of metres of  LIGHT traffic width onto the bus overpass.
> They spent about a million dollars on the bus overpass to cross Abbott Rd 
> and cyclists
> get a set of traffic lioghts with a bicycle lantern so we can ride across 
> after waiting 5
> minutes for the lights to change.
> My solution:
> What is neeed here is for the traffic light computer to be re-programmed 
> so that when a cyclist crosses
> one set of lights the cycle changes to turn the next set instantly green 
> so the cyclist can clear the
> entire intersection in ONE GO! And pigs might fly too!
> Mark R
> -----Original Message-----
> From: camwest-discuss-bounces at nicku.org
> [mailto:camwest-discuss-bounces at nicku.org]On Behalf Of Michael Goard
> Sent: Monday, 19 March 2007 10:02 PM
> To: Nick Urbanik; camwest-discuss at nicku.org; pmcguire at tpg.com.au
> Subject: Re: [CAMWEST-discuss] Fw: Rouse Hill T-Way
> Bikely route with comments
> http://www.bikely.com/maps/bike-path/NW-T-Way-Abbot-to-Briens-Rd
>>From Abbot Rd intersection to Briens Rd Northmead, then to Westmead
> Regards
> Michael Goard
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Nick Urbanik" <nicku at nicku.org>
> To: <camwest-discuss at nicku.org>
> Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 7:59 PM
> Subject: [CAMWEST-discuss] Fw: Rouse Hill T-Way
>> Dear CAMWESTies,
>> Is anyone familiar with the location Peter is talking about?  Can
>> anyone help him?
>> ----- Forwarded message from Peter McGuire <pmcguire at tpg.com.au> -----
>> From: "Peter McGuire" <pmcguire at tpg.com.au>
>> Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 17:39:34 +1100
>> To: <info at camwest.pps.com.au>
>> Subject: Rouse Hill T-Way
>> X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11
>> Hi, I am new to bicycle riding having just purchased a new Bike late
>> last year.  I was anticipating using the proposed cycle path along the
>> new Parramatta-Rouse Hill busway but have been astounded to find that
>> a cycleway has not been included with this T-way between Abbott Road
>> and the Cumberland Hwy including the bridge over Toongabbie Ck and the
>> two overpasses at Abbott RD and the Cumberland Hwy. I understand
>> CAMwest puts in a lot of voluntary effort to get better outcomes for
>> cyclists and I would just like to ask if CAMwest was aware that this
>> was not going to happen. I wrote to the RTA but no reply. I attempted
>> to ride along the alternate paths along Old Windsor Rd but found it a
>> daunting task especially crossing some of those very large
>> intersections like the M2 exit/entry. Very unsafe if you have
>> children.
>>            This seems to be a tragic lost opportunity to link the M7
>> cycleway with Parramatta in a safe cycling environment. Is all hope
>> lost to make safe cycling a reality?
>>            Yours sincerely , Peter McGuire
>> ----- End forwarded message -----
>> -- 
>> Nick Urbanik   RHCE         http://nicku.org        nicku at nicku.org
>> GPG: 7FFA CDC7 5A77 0558 DC7A 790A 16DF EC5B BB9D 2C24 ID: BB9D2C24
>> _______________________________________________
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