[CAMWEST-discuss] Fw: Fw: Rouse Hill T-Way

Chris Worthington cworthington at parracity.nsw.gov.au
Mon Apr 9 14:54:31 UTC 2007

Dear Richard

Please find attached an email from a number of members of the bicycle group
relating to the deficiencies of the new bicycle route, now that the
Transitway has been completed . From what the writers state, the situation
appears to be quite disappointing to say the least. It would therefore be
appreciated if this matter could be listed on the agenda of the next
Traffic Committee Meeting and that a spokesperson for the complainants be
requested to come along to the meeting to present their case. Could you
also request Tim Dale to send along a rep. from Civil Works who maybe able
to organise for a rep from the RTA to also attend, so that they can both
give us an update as to what works are still outstanding and when various
matters identified might be rectified.

I must say that I was under the impression that a joint  audit had been
undertaken by officers of Council and the RTA prior to handover, and as
such, I am concerned that so many aspects have been overlooked

In the meantime, I have copied Mike Veysey from the RTA in on this email.

I look forward to your response

Thanking you
Chris Worthington

----- Forwarded by Chris Worthington/Parracity on 10/04/2007 12:28 AM -----
             jonhol2 at netscape.                                         
             08/04/2007 08:20          mpgoard at ihug.com.au,            
             PM                        imacian at bigpond.net.au,         
                                       Mark.Robson at australwright.com.au,
                                       pmcguire at tpg.com.au,            
                                       camwest-discuss at nicku.org,      
                                       nicku at nicku.org,                
                                       jonhol2 at netscape.net            
                                       aunwin at bicyclensw.org.au,       
                                       mwalsh at parracity.nsw.gov.au,    
                                       cworthington at parracity.nsw.gov.au,
                                       gjensen at parracity.nsw.gov.au,   
                                       Ian_Lovelock at rta.nsw.gov.au     
                                       Re: [CAMWEST-discuss] Fw: Rouse 
                                       Hill T-Way                      

Hello all,
           I ventured out on my first ride for a month today ( Easter
Sunday) to test ride my injured shoulder & I chose to ride the T-Way from
WestmeadHospital to the M7. The main reason for doing this was to gain some
idea on the track before making any further noise.

My first problem was identifying the cycle way. It was poorly signposted
from the Hospital & I rode along the footpath down to MonsRoad where I
picked up the track. I assume that the footpath was not a shared path as it
was not marked that way. I was aware of where the T-Way was before setting
out, but had I been going out cold, it would have been a difficult task to
find it.

 A short run along MonsRd ended in a bit of confusion but I finally found
the way along the T-Way & over a beautiful bridge, specially designed and
built for cycling, all the way to a DEAD END. I stopped & watched another
cyclist venture across the Cumberland Highway intersection. He wandered
around on the other side of the roadway in bewilderment & then returned to
his starting point. I gave him the options of RedbankRd or the Housing
Commission estate & the last I saw of him was him heading towards Redbank.
(That is probably his first & last ride on this route).

I took off on the well worn path through the broken fence past the
basketball courts. I noted that I rode through a storm water depression &
had to clamber down a 60 cm or so wall. This would not be the route to take
if it were raining in any way.

The housing commission estate looked relatively neat & tidy but I got the
impression I would not like to ride through here in the dark. A
resonableamount of graffiti around, poor lighting & lots of little alleys
to run into once you muggedsomeone.

Over the footbridge across the Cumberland. It has a ramp, was easy enough
to ride but it had sahrpturns, was relatively narrow & obviously wasn't
designed for the cyclist. Off the other side, more Housing Commission
Estate, much the same as the other side. A couple of minor detours saw me
back on the T-Way Path at the top of the hill.

 Down the hill to FitzwilliamSt was very pleasant. Across the lights &
continue on.

The crossing of FitzwilliamRd saw me on the residents access road, a narrow
stretch about 3 metreswide, with parked cars & two way traffic for about
300 metres. Then it was back on to a dedicated bike path which turned under
Old Windsor Road along side the creek with a warning sign that the road was
subject to flooding & a flood water indicator. There had been a large
amount of storm water run off from Old Windsor Rd & there was quite a nice
little quagmire for about 3 metres. Met a father & two kids here. The kids
were on an "outfit", a Mountain bike & side car. Looked like fun.

Back up along Old Windsor. Here the bike path is in various states of
repair or disrepair.A mix of new & old path.  Areas of debris on the path,
some overgrowth, especially around intersections & some interesting turns &
traffic calming ideas at intersections. A couple of cars parked on the path
& plenty of evidence that this was a regular practice. The crossing of the
M2was slow, due to the traffic volumes & nature of the intersection. The
safety barriers on the other side could not be ridden through, so it was
detour around or get off & walk through. From there it was back on the
cycle way & up to the M7. After the small amount of rain we have had, there
was evidence of flooding, poor drainage & poor erosion prevention measures.
There is a number of traffic signs growing from the track & they make for
interesting riding.

The return trip home took me through the back streets of Winston Hills
(Rebecca Place, Barnetts& Moxhamsetc) & even though it was 'on road' it was
a pleasant ride.

My impressions: Here is another token cycle path. It starts and ends almost
nowhere. You can probably make your way to Parramattafrom Windsor or
Prestonsbut the detours at this time are a severe impediment to enjoyable

As with other cycle paths in most areas of Sydney, there is no obvious
maintenance programme& no  enforcement programmeto discourage parking or
driving on the tracks. They appear to be a convenient area for
landscapersto gain access to their gardens & are also a very convenient
place to site traffic control signs.

The lack of any foresight in planning this track, especially on the
Cumberland / Old Windsor Rd intersection makes it a white elephant right
from the outset & we should all be contacting the RTA & ParramattaCouncil
regarding this as often as possible.

I also noted that the cycling fraternity is not the only one's
inconvenienced by the lack of foresight of the planners. If you choose to
be a pedestrian & live on the opposite side of Old Windsor Rd, then good
luck getting on to the T-Way without some fairly long walks or dangerous
road crossings.

Oh, one plus. There are bike rings at the bus stops but if you choose to
leave yours there, then contact your insurer before you do. Plenty of noise
barriers & trees to provide cover for the thieves.

I will be making some inquiries with BNSW, RTA & ParramattaCouncil (as per
the comment from Ian MacIndoebelow) re this track & the proposed dates to
remedy the Cumberland Intersection. If you have already spoken to these
people, let me know the results of your conversations as soon as possible.

John Holstein
jonhol2 at netscape.net

"if we don't change direction, we will end up where we are headed"

-----Original Message-----
From: mpgoard at ihug.com.au
To: imacian at bigpond.net.au; Mark.Robson at australwright.com.au;
pmcguire at tpg.com.au; camwest-discuss at nicku.org; nicku at nicku.org;
jonhol2 at netscape.net
Cc: aunwin at bicyclensw.org.au; mwalsh at parracity.nsw.gov.au;
cworthington at parracity.nsw.gov.au; gjensen at parracity.nsw.gov.au;
Ian_Lovelock at rta.nsw.gov.au
Sent: Mon, 2 Apr2007 1:24 PM
Subject: Re: [CAMWEST-discuss] Fw: Rouse Hill T-Way

I have also seen that the SondWall has been repaired.

Also checked out access from southern side of intersection to
portadownthrough the housing commisioncomplex.

Photos of this area is at:


240 - Chain fence broken and trodden path to Shared Path
241 - trodden path to Sound wall
242 - Soundwallend of chainlinkfence
243 - overgrown and narrow space between chainlinkfence and Soundwall
244 - trodden path along chainlinkfence from Soundwall
245 - trodden dirt path from chainlinkfence over retaining wall towards
housing commission units
246 - retaining wall and path to soundwall
247 - retaining wall and path through break in chainlinkfence
248 - trodden path through storm water channel between retaining wall and
249 - Storm water outlet from under roadway taken from trodden path
250 - trodden path through stormwater channel from housing commisionunits
side looking at intersection and end of shared path
251 - trodden path through stormwater channel from housing commisionunits
side looking at intersection and end of shared path
252 - T-way Bridge, Shared path bridge and basketball court in foreground
253 - midway on trodden path between housing commisionunits driveway and
stormwater channel (facing west)
254 - midway on trodden path between housing commisionunits driveway and
stormwater channel (facing east to intersection)
255 - Eastern end of access driveway of housing commisionunits


Michael Goard
mpgoard at ihug.com.au
Phone: +61 415 191 405

----- Original Message -----
From: Ian Macindoe
To: Mark.Robson at australwright.com.au ; mpgoard at ihug.com.au ;
pmcguire at tpg.com.au ; camwest-discuss at nicku.org ; nicku at nicku.org ;
jonhol2 at netscape.net
Cc: Alex Unwin ; Maureen Walsh ; Chris Worthington ; Garry Jensen ; Ian
Sent: Monday, April 02, 2007 12:37 PM
Subject: Re: [CAMWEST-discuss] Fw: Rouse Hill T-Way

Dear John
I have been trying to contact BNSWre this problem. Maybe you will have more
luck, as a Committee member. There is presently an impasse between the RTA
and ParramattaCity Council, with the former claiming the Council owes RTA
funds and the Council denying this is true. I would like to see Bicycle NSW
try to broker a resolution. If you wish to get more information call Gary
Jensen (ParramattaCity Council Open Space Manager) on 9806 5717 and Peter
Letts(RTA -- call 131 782 and ask to be put thru to Peter Letts). I
understand the Lord Mayor has written to the Minister. Last I heard the
Minister had not yet replied. One way or another we need to kick up a fuss.
I am otherwise pre-occupied at present, so must rely on others to take the
initiative. Good luck.
----- Original Message -----
From: jonhol2 at netscape.net
To: Mark.Robson at australwright.com.au ; mpgoard at ihug.com.au ;
imacian at bigpond.net.au ; pmcguire at tpg.com.au ; camwest-discuss at nicku.org ;
nicku at nicku.org
Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 9:15 PM
Subject: Re: [CAMWEST-discuss] Fw: Rouse Hill T-Way

I drove past the CumberalndRd/ Old Windsor Rd intersection today. The sound
barriers have been repaired, so the only option is onto the road at this

As much as I dislike protests, perhaps it is time to bombard ParramattaCity
Council & the RTA abputthis intersection. Phone calls, letters etc. Also
involve the local members as they should all be fresh and enthusiastic
after their recent election/ re-election.

Should a concerted effort like that fail, then how about a protest ride
along the T Way from Parramattato wherever & back again to raise the issue.
It is absolutely ridiculous to think that they would spend all that money
on any sort of roadway or path & have it just end. ( or is it in their
minds) ?

What are your thoughts?

John Holstein

"if we don't change direction, we will end up where we are headed"

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark.Robson at australwright.com.au
To: mpgoard at ihug.com.au; imacian at bigpond.net.au; pmcguire at tpg.com.au;
camwest-discuss at nicku.org; nicku at nicku.org
Sent: Tue, 27 Mar 2007 4:10 PM
Subject: Re: [CAMWEST-discuss] Fw: Rouse Hill T-Way

Hi All,

This episode shows how the designers don't look around at what's already
before they start.  There is a perfectly good pedestrian overpass across
CumberlandHwywithin sight of the Cumberland Hwy/Old Windsor Rd
intersection. From memory
this bridge is
quite ridable, at least on the northern end.

Taking the cyclepathover the existing overpass and thru the park to
Tanderaeeand up FerndaleClose would have been much better IMHO. Is there
any access from
the new
 creek crossing into MilfordWay or is there a sound fence there as well??
not then the
new bridge over the creek is a complete waste of money.

In the meantime, it's possible to divert via DarcyRd, BriensRd, Mayfield,
cross Coopers Ckon narrow bridge, then ChetwynPl,
then either - cross Cumberland Hwyat lights into FerndaleClor       -
PortadownRd, overpass, then up Tanderaeeinto FerndaleClMark R

-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Goard[mailto:mpgoard at ihug.com.au]
Sent: Tuesday, 20 March 2007 11:21 AM
To: Ian Macindoe; pmcguire at tpg.com.au; camwest-discuss at nicku.org;
NickUrbanik; Mark Robson
Subject: Re: [CAMWEST-discuss] Fw: Rouse Hill T-Way

Hi all,

Here is a link to the route via Ferndaleand Doig
http://www.bikely.com/maps/bike-path/NW-T-way-Alt-Route-2There are several
reasons for not recomendingthe route (see comments on the
route in its notes)
I have attached some photos taken last Sunday (18/3)

The Noise Wall was completely closed, and has been hacked open, and a
section of the fence erected has be taken down by locals.
The closure was done to kurbthe incidence of theft from cars stopping at
the lights on Hart Drive by some residents from the housing commision,
hiding behind the part of the Noise Wall.
Could be impassable in wet weather

It may not be a safe route after dark.

215 - Road Ends - It sure does!
217 - T-way information sign on southern side of Hart Drive
222 - Southern side of Hart Drive facing wsetup Hart Drive - "No Pedestrian
Access Permitted"
223 - Narrow width of dropped curb
224 - Facing South East Old Windsor Rd - Restricted view of traffic
approaching slip lane (many take it too fast) Recommend not to cross
untillsure vehicle has stopped and those following will stop safely.
225 - No dropped curb crossing on island
226 - No fromedPaths, mounds of dirt, and rubble, and armcorailing
restrict access to cut hole in Noise Wall
227 - Hacked hole in Noise Wall
228 - Hacked hole in Noise Wall and uneven ground levels
229 - Hole made in newly erected Fence (facing west). The grass was quite
long when photo taken. Seen note below about park
230 - Looking back (east) at hole cut in Noise Wall
231 - Opening made in newly erected fence (facing east)

Notes on Park in 229:
1. No formed path - problem in wet weather
2. In photo - veer to right to exit to LurganSt Near DoigSt
3. Veering to left takes you to concreted stormwater structures.  This has
stepped level surfaces, and then takes you through housing commisionunits
to LurganSt


Michael Goard----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Robson" <Mark.Robson at australwright.com.au>
To: "Michael Goard" <mpgoard at ihug.com.au>; "Nick Urbanik"
<nicku at nicku.org>;
<camwest-discuss at nicku.org>; <pmcguire at tpg.com.au>
Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2007 9:28 AM
Subject: RE: [CAMWEST-discuss] Fw: Rouse Hill T-Way

> Hi All,
> I have had a quick look at Michael's bikely map,
> there is a new cycle bridge over the creek between the Cumberland Hwyand
> BriensRd,
> so it's not necessary to detour quite so far in this spot. However I
> know yet
> how to get down the hill from FerndaleClose to Cumberland Hwy, I assume
> there is
> some path still to be completed here, or perhaps cyclists are expected to
> go through
> the back streets via Ferndale, DoigSt and through the littl;e park there.
> Anyway, this is preferable to the big detour roudHammers Rd,
> and that hammers Rd bridge is really dangerous as well, sorry Michael,
> I've been nearly hit by a car there twice.
> Unfortunately the route from Abbot Rd to Cumberland HwyIS covered by
> something
> that the T-Way people think is a bicycle route. It's all they are
> and
> it has some serious problems. They don't seem to understand that a double
> traffic lights
> crossing like the one peter refers to at the intersection of Abbot Rd and
> Old Windsor Rd
> is completely unattractive to any sort of cyclist. How much more would it
> have cost to clip
> an extra couple of metresof  LIGHT traffic width onto the bus overpass.
> They spent about a million dollars on the bus overpass to cross Abbott Rd
> and cyclists
> get a set of traffic lioghtswith a bicycle lantern so we can ride across
> after waiting 5
> minutes for the lights to change.
> My solution:
> What is neeedhere is for the traffic light computer to be re-programmed
> so that when a cyclist crosses
> one set of lights the cycle changes to turn the next set instantly green
> so the cyclist can clear the
> entire intersection in ONE GO! And pigs might fly too!
> Mark R
> -----Original Message-----
> From: camwest-discuss-bounces at nicku.org>
[mailto:camwest-discuss-bounces at nicku.org]On Behalf Of Michael Goard> Sent:
Monday, 19 March 2007 10:02 PM
> To: Nick Urbanik; camwest-discuss at nicku.org; pmcguire at tpg.com.au>
Subject: Re: [CAMWEST-discuss] Fw: Rouse Hill T-Way
> Bikely route with comments
> http://www.bikely.com/maps/bike-path/NW-T-Way-Abbot-to-Briens-Rd>
>>From Abbot Rd intersection to BriensRd Northmead, then to Westmead>
> Regards
> Michael Goard>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Nick Urbanik" <nicku at nicku.org>
> To: <camwest-discuss at nicku.org>
> Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 7:59 PM
> Subject: [CAMWEST-discuss] Fw: Rouse Hill T-Way
>> Dear CAMWESTies,
>> Is anyone familiar with the location Peter is talking about?  Can
>> anyone help him?
>> ----- Forwarded message from Peter McGuire <pmcguire at tpg.com.au> -----
>> From: "Peter McGuire" <pmcguire at tpg.com.au>
>> Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 17:39:34 +1100
>> To: <info at camwest.pps.com.au>
>> Subject: Rouse Hill T-Way
>> X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11
>> Hi, I am new to bicycle riding having just purchased a new Bike late
>> last year.  I was anticipating using the proposed cycle path along the
>> new Parramatta-RouseHill buswaybut have been astounded to find that
>> a cyclewayhas not been included with this T-way between Abbott Road
>> and the Cumberland Hwyincluding the bridge over ToongabbieCkand the
>> two overpasses at Abbott RD and the Cumberland Hwy. I understand
>> CAMwest puts in a lot of voluntary effort to get better outcomes for
>> cyclists and I would just like to ask if CAMwest was aware that this
>> was not going to happen. I wrote to the RTA but no reply. I attempted
>> to ride along the alternate paths along Old Windsor Rd but found it a
>> daunting task especially crossing some of those very large
>> intersections like the M2exit/entry. Very unsafe if you have
>> children.
>>            This seems to be a tragic lost opportunity to link the M7>>
cyclewaywith Parramattain a safe cycling environment. Is all hope
>> lost to make safe cycling a reality?
>>            Yours sincerely , Peter McGuire
>> ----- End forwarded message -----
>> --
>> Nick UrbanikRHCEhttp://nicku.org        nicku at nicku.org>> GPG: 7FFA
CDC75A77 0558 DC7A790A 16DF EC5BBB9D2C24 ID: BB9D2C24>>
>> CAMWEST-discuss mailing list
>> CAMWEST-discuss at nicku.org>>
http://nicku.org/mailman/listinfo/camwest-discuss>> CAMWEST web
site: http://camwest.pps.com.au/>
> CAMWEST-discuss mailing list
> CAMWEST-discuss at nicku.org>
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site: http://camwest.pps.com.au/>
> Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender,
> except where the sender specifically states them to be the views of Crane
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